Chet's Paul McGill resonator

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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby conecaster » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:25 am

DAN SAGE wrote:Thank you, Mr. McGill, from a lifelong fan. May I second your comment on Mr. Stafford. He also used your guitar on at least one more CD "SOMEWHERE IN TIME". It includes a version of Maria Elena on your guitar, that in my humble opinion, is better (more beautiful), than the original, and may never be surpassed. I bought all three of his instrumental CD's from his website.

If you expound anymore on this topic, may I ask you, if you know anyway to increase the sustain on your magnificent instruments, so that it is a little longer? Does the depth of the guitar's soundbox (body/volume), or its construction have anything to do with the length of the sustain?

I thought my guitar, that was made by you, might be misadjusted, until I took it over to Mr. Standefer's house, and he played it, and a miracle happened. In his hands, it sounded just as good, as the one you made for him. (I think, it also might have helped to be directly in front of it, instead of attempting to play it, and listen to it at an angle).

As for the biscuits I measured, they are all made by Del Vecchio, at about the same time. They are spares, that I extorted from them (with help). I was WRONG!!! I got the bicuits and a cone out, and they do indeed appear to fit the top of the cone, like a hat. The OUTER ring on the bottom of the biscuit does indeed appear to contact the ANGELED surface of the top of the cone outside of the flat part on the top of the cone. It may compress enough with the downward pressure exerted by the strings, so, that the inner flat ring on the bottom of the biscuit, also contacts the flat spot on top of the cone???. The dimension/width of this flat ring is the difference, between the second and third measurements I listed in the second set of measurements. This would seem to raise all sorts of questions about the preciseness of the biscuit's machining, and if a bad sounding DVR might be immensely improved by a biscuit that fits properly. The bottom of the biscuit's inner wooden ring is essentially level with the bottom of the outer v shaped ring on the outside of the biscuit. Who knew? Definitely, not me!

As always, I could be wrong on anything I express, except maybe about the quality and the presence (cutting sound) of Mr. McGill's guitars.

Dan Sage

adding weight to the biscuit adds sustain Dan,

P
conecaster
 
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby Norm » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:20 am

On Jerry Douglas' page there was a video of Paul Beard (dobro builder) and the difference in alloy on various cones. Some rang like a bell when tapped, (and sustained longer) some not so much. I know Beard sells resonators so you might inquire there.

Also they cite that a good setup by a knowlegable resophonic tech makes a world of difference. Beard is famous for people sending him their instruments for a total setup

Worth looking into
...that's how it looks to me...The opinion expressed above is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of this station. Your mileage may vary...

Audio samples: http://www.youtube.com/user/acountrygent/videos
That should do it.
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby DAN SAGE » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:35 am

Post Deleted - Question to Mr. McGill sent by direct email.
Last edited by DAN SAGE on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby DAN SAGE » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:38 am

SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO DEL VECCHIO OWNERS.

[The following is exerpted from some posts on YOU TUBE discussing Mr. Atkins Del Vecchio Guitar. I had not heard of these strings before, and I wondered if any of the other Del Vecchio owners had any experience with them.]

MrPickinbuddy1 year ago

Please translate this for me...

Valerio d' souza Xavier 1 year ago
os nviolões del vecchio dinamico so são bons com corda de aço eu so uso no meu tenor,tomastick e tambem as cordas dadario!! otimas

DickandCarol1 1 year ago
To Pickinbuddy. Wow, that is so interesting! I have been using Tomastik-Infeld Classic S strings which is the rope core string that you describe, on and off for several years. I just found out that they are for much more than nylon string guitars. I started using them on regular steel string guitars and the sound is just huge through a Baggs pickup, for example. Sometimes the nut needs to modified to accomodate them. But the sound is sensational!

Pickinbuddy 1 year ago
Well, Nato Lima GAVE me 3 Thomastik sets to try out and told me that these were the best string for the Del Vecchio! He himself used them in the later years...Los Indios usually used LaBella strings on the Del Vecchio for many years, though I don't know what set they used on the Classical guitars, as nylon strings.

DickandCarol1 1 year ago
Respond to this video... How do you know that Los Indios Tabajaras used Tomastics. I can't find anything on that. I have just discovered these strings and just wondered.

DickandCarol1 1 year ago
How do you know that they used Tomastiks?  That was a long time ago. Just curious because I can't find anything on that and I currently use the Tomastik strings you are describing.

Pickinbuddy 2 years ago
I bought my Del Vecchio in October 1975 in Sao Paulo at their store on Rua Aurora 196. What a beautiful store--they had all the different Resofonico modelo on display--and I was able to pick out the best sounding one! I still have it, and it sounds beautiful. Back then, the only nylon string instruments they made were the standard classical models--their top of the line, being the "Segovia" model. I will never forget that day--I still have all the brochures.

heberthybr 2 years ago
Oh! I see. Here in Brazil they only use nylon strings thats why I said that!

Pickinbuddy 2 years ago
The Del Vecchio actually used silk & steel strings; Nato Lima of Los Indios Tabajaras used Dr. Thomastik strings which were 'nylon tape wound on rope core' for the 3 treble strings; and 'silverplated copper flat wound on rope core' for the 3 bass strings. These are similar to violin strings!

Thomastik is an incredible company with so many new ideas in string manufacturing.

heberthybr 2 years ago
WOW! He is using a brazilian Del Vecchio acoustic guitar called "Violão Dinâmico". It was orinally made in the 50s. But this model was originally built to use nylon strings.
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby DAN SAGE » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:58 am

Thanks for the information, Norm. I tried to find the video on Mr. Douglas' page, but I haven't been successful so far. I wrote an email to Beard Guitars, so I will wait and see what they have to say.

Dan Sage
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby Norm » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:37 am

The beard video is here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91Qx0t98NWU

It's pretty long and doesn't discuss DV's specifically but it does talk about biscuit bridge resonator guitars like the old Nationals. The part where he talks about alloys is around 29.15 or so
...that's how it looks to me...The opinion expressed above is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of this station. Your mileage may vary...

Audio samples: http://www.youtube.com/user/acountrygent/videos
That should do it.
Norm
 
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby DAN SAGE » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:08 pm

There is a You tube video done by a Brazilian reporter in Portuguese on the Del Vecchio factory, if you are interested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6U8_vyK3qw

DAN SAGE
Last edited by DAN SAGE on Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby DAN SAGE » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:19 pm

A SHORT UPDATE ON DELVECCHIO AND MCGILL GUITARS

I finally got my short scale/smaller cone DVR back from the luthier. It still needs the cone well cover plate reinforced with a layer of carbon fiber, but she replaced the finger board with a radiused one with correctly positioned new wide/tall frets. (I checked it on my strobo tuner and it appears to be right on the money over the complete length of the fretboard). It already had a neck truss rod installed, (no external pickup on this one, it does have a ghs acoustic soundhole microphone installed inside of it), but it needed the dished in top fixed. She reinforced the top, and I made a temporary cone well cover plate out of modeler's thin super strong (plies) plywood, until I get around to fixing the original cone well cover plate. I also got a new metal cone well and some new cones and had her replace the cone well and the original trashed cone. It is now my favorite DVR out of all of them that I own. My friend doesn't like it very much, because it has a short scale and a relatively narrow neck. All of his classical guitars, that he owns, have a wider neck and at least a 25.5" scale. He has a few other guitars, but he mainly plays his classicals. The sound on my short scale/smaller cone DVR is incomparable, even though I am using Martin phosphor bronze extra light SP's. They only add about 10 extra pounds of neck tension over the silk and steel, that some other owners have recommented.

I also tried replacing the biscuit/puck on my McGill with one of my spare Del Vecchio ones, and it changed the sound, and increased the sustain by at least 50%. It is heavier/more massive than the original McGill biscuit, but the McGill biscuit only makes contact with the cone in three places, all pretty much inline with the bridge. There is one contact point inline with the bridge on the treble side and two contact points, slightly displaced on each side of inline with the bridge, on the bass string side. The contact points form a really narrow base triangle. It doesn't appear that the rest of the biscuit contacts the top of the cone. Mr. McGill has made a lot of improvements to the DVR design, and he has patented them. I don't know, if the biscuit redesign is one of them. The McGill with its original biscuit has a more "fundamental/metallic/dobro like" tone (probably also depending on the type of strings being used) compared to a really good sounding DVR (references: my guitar and Mr. Standefer's and Mr. Stafford's recordings), but it also has less sustain. Both of these qualities may be a benefit, if you are recording with it??? Removing most of the contact area on the biscuit in front of and in back of the bridge, probably also helps to prevent the most common type of cone collapse that you encounter on the DVR's, which always seems to start inline between the neck and the bridge on the cone, at least in my experience. This fact maybe also allows the cone to be loaded up more heavily by the strings, which should increase the volume???

I had thought that the McGill cones were slightly larger, than the standard long scale DVR cones, but I am not so sure now, since the DVR biscuit seemed to fit the top of the McGill cone so nicely. I ordered some new cones from Mr. McGill, and I will check this out when they arrive, instead of dismantling my McGill even more. (UPDATE: It appears that the McGill cones are the same as the original DVR cones.)

I am now pretty much convinced, that the most critical part of the sound of a DVR is directly connected/related to the construction and fit of the biscuit to the top of the cone. If everything else is brought up to par on its construction, it would seem, at least to me, that a really good biscuit, its fit, and placement, may be what makes, a really good sounding Del Vecchio Resonator guitar.

The more I learn, the less I know.

Dan Sage
Last edited by DAN SAGE on Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby DagerRande » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:53 pm

Audie, is that the one that John Standifer adjusted in the hallway at the convention last Summer? It's quite clear to me whose that was.

Hello, by the way! We still need to get together! Last Tuesday would have been nice.....we were down to -42 F windchill.....lol.
Rande Dager

We are all capable of doing more than we think we can!
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Re: Chet's Paul McGill resonator

Postby awykle » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:59 pm

Rande,
You're right. It is the same. Hopefully when the current ice age ends we can get together. You have so much great stuff!
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