Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

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Re: Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

Postby dgallent » Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:11 am

James Burton does not use a thumb pick and neither did Glen Campbell but both could get the same sound with their fingers. Burton does use steel picks on his fingers. I have seen Jim Stafford also use a straight pick and get the "thumber" sound. I will not use the term "boom-chick" out of respect of the late Paul Yandell who despised the phrase.

Chet used to say "it sounds like two bad guitar players". When played correctly, with heavy into the thumb, it is the sound directly from God...just love it...and really not much else.

One day I was in New York at Manny's guitar store playing a Tele hooked up to an amp, turned down pretty low. I was hitting my "lick" pretty good while become an instant "legend in my own mind" (bastardized alternating bass and lots of tweedle dee dee on the small strings). This guy came and sat down next to me and asked me how to do that. I showed him the lick slowly and then played "Windy and Warm" for him. A small crowd gathered around and I got a bit nervous and put the guitar up and walked around the store. The guy behind the counter came up to me and said "What did he tell you?" I said who....he said "Steve Miller"...I said who is Steve Miller? He explained it to me and I walked out laughing...don't remember if I bought the guitar or not. I think it was a Tele Custom sunburst and I wound up with one but not sure if it was that one.
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Re: Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

Postby craigdobbins » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:38 pm

Great story, Don. If I remember correctly, Steve Miller's father was one of Les Paul's doctors. If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me. ;)

Craig
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Re: Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

Postby bill_h » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:08 pm

Mose Rager was a fan of Sylvester Weaver. He used to hear Sylvester on the radio. If I'm not mistaken a steel guitar player ended up getting writer's royalties for Steel Guitar Rag. Copyright law was probably a relatively new thing back then, if it had even come into existence yet. Maybe Sylvester didn't know about copyrights or how to register his material with the copyright office.

Bobby Anderson told me one time that Arnold Schultz was not a thumbpicker but a slide player and used a pocket knife as his slide.

Arnold also influenced Bill Monroe. It's been said that Arnold put the "blue" in bluegrass. There's a bluesey side to Bill Monroe's playing and it's been said that his bluesey side was a result of having been influenced by Arnold.

Regardless of what kind of pick Arnold used he was known for being able to play rhythm and a melody at the same time. He's been said to have turned down opportunities to record so we can only try to make educated guesses as to what he sounded like. ( Wouldn't it be nice if a recording of him was to surface someday!! )

At some point in his life Arnold started spending his winters in New Orleans and was even in Jelly Roll Morton's band at one point. No telling what Arnold learned from the New Orleans music scene and what New Orleans learned from him.

From what I've been able to gather, I believe Kennedy Jones is the founder of thumbpicking. I believe he fused Parlor guitar, which he learned from his Mother, with an older ragtime style that originated in the Appalachians; and of course started playing it with a thumbpick.

There's supposed to be a cassette tape in existence where one of Kennedy's children ask him about his style. When asked about Arnold Schultz, I don't remember Kennedy's exact words but he said Arnold helped him with his "passing chords." Just making an educated guess on my part, I believe Kennedy was referring to the diminished 7th chord when he mentioned passing chords. ( Again, just an educated guess on my part. I may not be right.)

Regardless of how much Arnold influenced Kennedy or exactly what role Arnold played in the development of thumbpicking, he's without a doubt one of the most unique musicians ever. If a recording of him ever surfaces I'll be one of the first to try to get a copy!

Mose has been quoted as saying that a coal miner named Jim Mason was the first player he ever heard "choke" ( mute) the strings. If I'm not mistaken Jim was a blues player.

I wonder if Kennedy choked the strings or could that have been one of Mose's contributions to thumbpicking ( by way of Jim Mason of course.) Does anyone know?

Thanks Roger for for starting such an interesting thread! Unless one of the delta blues players had already recorded before this one was released it may very well be the first ragtime recording with a thumb/finger technique.
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Re: Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

Postby Norm » Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:43 am

"...Mose has been quoted as saying that a coal miner named Jim Mason was the first player he ever heard "choke" ( mute) the strings. If I'm not mistaken Jim was a blues player.

I wonder if Kennedy choked the strings or could that have been one of Mose's contributions to thumbpicking ( by way of Jim Mason of course.) Does anyone know?..."

That's one of those things we'll probably never get answered to any real satisfaction.

According to Paul Yandell: "Mose Rager said Kennedy was the first to use a thumb pick and the first one to ‘choke the strings’ in other words deaden the bass strings with his right hand."

I would venture that some of these techniques either spontaneously occured around the same time or the ideas spread quickly. "Choking" the strings isn't rocket science. It is a simple technique, a logical step up to emphasize the now familiar style.
...that's how it looks to me...The opinion expressed above is my own and does not necessarily reflect the views of this station. Your mileage may vary...

Audio samples: http://www.youtube.com/user/acountrygent/videos
That should do it.
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Re: Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

Postby bill_h » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:44 pm

Thanks for the info Norm.

So I don't take Paul's comments out of context do you know if Paul was saying Kennedy was the first one ever to use a thumbpick and choke the strings or the first in Muhlenberg County ( or maybe even the first among the four legends: Kennedy,Ike,Mose, and Merle.)

I've often wondered if choking the strings began with the delta blues players but come to think of it choking the strings probably wouldn't work all that well without a thumbpick.

Just thought of another intelligent rhetorical question while typing this. Did Kennedy always choke the strings or did he start doing so when he started using a thumbpick? Does anyone know?
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Re: Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

Postby Joe Hudson » Sat Sep 21, 2013 8:23 am

There is an audio recording of an interview with Kennedy & Mose. Kennedy goes into detail about how he came to use a thumbpick, and stated himself that he was the first to adapt it to the style. The story is a good one. Tells about wearing a blister on his thumb while playing a long dance, trying picks made for a Hawaiian guitar, and adapting them to his style
I will try to post the recording when I can. Some great great history on it!
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Re: Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

Postby bill_h » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:00 am

Joe I'd love to hear that interview and I'm sure lots of others would too. Looking forward to listening to it if it gets posted.
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Re: Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

Postby VicRag » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:39 am

You know of the transcripted interview of Kennedy Jones' children ?
http://countrymusichalloffame.org/oral-history-collection/view/1283

Search for ' Rager ' and ' Travis ' also. I haven't tried other name searches, but the Mose Rager interview is great, although short. There is also another earlier talk with Mose if you do a search on youtube.

The above interview with Lee Jones & Jones Jr, is long, very entertaining and has lots of good info. Probably best if you hear it (I have only read it), rather than I reprint any of that info here .
(I will see how I should quote from it first according to agreement).
It seems safe to say that he mastered almost any kind of string instrument.

Adding something to the Arnold Schultz subject: I recently read Charles K. Wolfe's book 'Kentucky Country' and although many passages are abbreviated, he always tried to locate the people who were contemporary with the long gone musicians.
Of those he met who heard Arnold Schultz live (except for Bill Monroe and maybe Kennedy Jones Sr), they compared Arnold's playing to Blind Blake's.

Blind Blake had the ability to sound like a flatpicker and in the same song switching to fingerstyle, it is a powerful style, and from what Bill Monroe said about Schultz , I think this style should be quite close.
Other than this, I think Schultz travelled much more and got a very different and more varied repertoire.
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