Earliest Recording of Alternating Bass style Guitar

[Roger Hardin]

I was searching youtube for early recordings of Steel Guitar Rag when I first came across this recording by Sylvester Weaver. I thought this was odd, a recording of Steel Guitar Rag from 1923 called "Guitar Rag." According to Weaver's Wikipedia page, this version of Guitar Rag along with Guitar Blues (another recording from the same session) are the first known recordings of the slide guitar style, however, Sylvester is obviously using an alternating bass line on this version of Guitar Rag. Is it reasonable to say this is the earliest recording of thumbpicking style or alternating bass style guitar? Does anyone know of an earlier recording of thumbpicking style?

[awykle]

Wow! That's good question Roger! That's quite a find and a name I never knew. I listened to several of his tunes on youtube and was amazed at what I heard. I know Arnold Shultz was a big influence on Mose Rager and Ike Everly and others in western Kentucky, though I know of no recordings that exist of Arnold. This must be some of the real early roots of fingerstyle as we know it today. Amazing stuff.

[Norm]

I think the rudiments were fairly common in some of the delta blues styles amongst the black communities and got spread by black guys who worked the railroads. What the Muhlenberg guys did was to come up with "choking"... damping the bass strings for a clear separation of rhythm/melody like Travis did. Kennedy Jones was the guy in that group who bought them all thumbpicks (used in hawaiian guitar playing) to get a different tone on the bass strings also.

I read somewhere that some "parlor guitar' music used that kind of alternating bass style but I've never found any clear examples of it. You'll probably find rough versions of thumb style in the old blues musicians records. It's an intuitive way to want to play. All it takes is an idea and a lot of practice. Some folks think Arnold Schultz was a genius but some say he didn't play as much finger style at all and said he was known for using a flatpick and a jackknife for a slide. Since he was never recorded we'll never know. He got around a lot, though.
Railroad man.

[Roger Hardin]

Norm said:

Some folks think Arnold Schultz was a genius but some say he didn't play as much finger style at all and said he was known for using a flatpick and a jackknife for a slide

I really don't believe this. Arnold Schultz using a flatpick? Say it ain't so Norm.

It's interesting that Arnold Schultz also used a Knife for a slide as did Sylvester Weaver. Sylvester was from Louisville KY. It's possible those two crossed paths at some point.

[Richard Hudson]

Several of the old timers around where I grew up used a knife as a slide. As a matter of fact, I played around with it that way when I was a boy because I saw some others doing it.

I really enjoy reading about the history of thumbstyle/fingerstyle guitar. Roger's discovery is very interesting and I remember him sharing that discovery a couple of weeks ago on facebook, but the topic then was the origin of Steel Guitar Rag. Very enlightening. I'll just take it all in.

[EddieP]

Mose never met Arnold. Kennedy Jones played with him a little bit after he was already playing his style. He got started from his mother Alice DeArmond Jones who did play the ladies parlor style. The parlor style was what got the guitar scattered all around the country by mail order. One popular tune that is very alt bass is Spanish Fandango. Also some of the parlor style open tunings lended themselves to such things as Delta Blues. Eddie P.

[Richard Hudson]

My Mom used to play Spanish Fandango. Actually a lot of people around my old home used to play it and it seemed like everyone had a different version. Most of the ones I heard was in an open G tuning. It's a pretty tune.

[Norm]

"Arnold Schultz using a flatpick? "

Here's my references:

Most historical essays repeatedly credit guitarist, Arnold Schultz, as being a thumb-style pioneer. Many sources give the impression that Arnold brought thumb style playing to Kennedy Jones and Mose Rager as in this excerpt:

Thumbpicking guitar style has been credited to the Muhlenberg County “legends” Kennedy Jones, Mose Rager, Ike Everly (the father of Don and Phil Everly a/k/a the Everly Brothers), and Merle Travis. Jones, Rager, and Everly influenced Travis, who took the style to the rest of the world along with Chet Atkins. But Shultz influenced this group of Muhlenberg County pickers, particularly Jones who pioneered the use of a thumbpick to enhance the bass notes.[/b]__Arnold Schultz Kathy and Don Thomason


They go on to say:

[b]He was African-American, a local laborer and a truly exceptional musician. Indeed, the consensus of those who heard him is that Arnold Shultz was one of the greatest blues guitarists who ever lived.


It is really too bad that there are no known recordings of Schultz available so modern ears can form their own decision on Schultz’s abilities. Paul felt Schultz was given too much credit for contribution to the Jones/Rager/Travis Kentucky thumb style that was part of his early roots.

Chet, Bill Monroe and others were doing a show at the Station Inn one night when I asked Bill Monroe if he ever knew Arnold Schultz.
‘Yes I played square dances with him in Rosine, Kentucky’
I then asked him if he played with a thumb pick. He answered ‘No, he used a straight pick and a Barlow pocket knife.’ He then said ‘He played a lot of runs’.
Kennedy Jones Jr. told me that his daddy told him that he had been playing for about 10 years before ever met Arnold Schultz. Kennedy learned his first guitar from his mother who played. So there are two people who knew and played with Arnold Schultz. You can draw you own conclusions. Arnold Schultz may have been good guitar player but Kennedy Jones was the father of finger picking as we know it. To add a few more words, Kennedy Jones was the first guy to use a thumb pick in and around Kentucky. He told his son he was playing square dances when his thumb got sore. So when he saw a thumb pick in a music store one time he bought one and tried it.
(Thumb picks were offered to those who wanted to play Hawaiian steel guitar which was popular in the twenties and thirties. Hawaiian guitar players used thumb picks and finger picks. sometimes called “thimbles” at the time.)

Mose Rager said Kennedy was the first to use a thumb pick and the first one to ‘choke the strings’ in other words deaden the bass strings with his right hand.

So there you have it. Frankly, I think back then everybody used their right hand fingers in various ways including the use of flatpicks. It probably depended on the situation

[Roger Hardin]

Thanks for posting that Norm. I really didn't doubt you. I was kidding. I have heard Eddie say if You get pulled over in Muhlenberg County, all you need to do is show the officer a thumbpick and they will let you off.

[Norm]

Just making sure...

It is really too bad that Arnold never (to our knowledge) got recorded. He obviously made an impression on some folks.

Re: other posts on "Spanish Fandango"

My dad played a version of it but it was in standard tuning and in C. Wasn't exactly alternating bass but it was simple and pretty... easy to play and because it required use of right hand thumb and index finger instead of a pick, quite exotic sounding to my young ears.