Chet's Gibson CG

[JeffS]

Thanks for the replys. I apologize for just now acknowledging them, but I have been away and had no internet access. I agree with all that has been said. I've been an avid Chet fan since 1970 when I was nine years old. I always studied the album covers to try to see everything I could about Chet's guitar, and by the 1970's, it was obvious that Chet's guitar didn't resemble the CG's that Gretsch made then. The guitar that I fell in love with was the Super Chet on the Finger Pickin' Good album cover. I never had a Gretsch back then; after I had been playing for about two years, my parents got a really good deal on a 1966 Gibson Byrdland from my guitar teacher. I kept that guitar until about 1992. It was a great guitar, but the short scale and really narrow nut width made playing fingerstyle difficult - especially if you have large fingers like I have. I had always wanted a Chet Atkins model guitar, so I was able to purchase a new Gibson CG in 1992. It is a great guitar, and I would not part with it. It is special to me, because I had wanted a Chet model guitar for so long. I also have a 59 NC, and I would not part with it either. I think the guitars are very simlilar in tone. I have recorded the same songs, with the same microphone, same microphone position, same amp and amp settings, and there is very minor difference in the overall tone. I think the Gretsch does have a little more of Chet's 1960's tone (especially the 4th and 5th strings), but I really think the Gibson may be a little more balanced between strings and have a little tighter bass notes. But like it has been noted, all of this is my opinion and what I hear.

I think it is particularly admirable of Chet that he played what he endorsed. That is not always true. I also play banjo, and I know for a fact many professional banjo players, with signature model banjos (Gibson, Huber, etc.), play prewar Gibson flatheads most of the time - especially when recording. I have a Huber Lancaster, and I have played several prewar Gibson flatheads, including a 1934 Granada, and I really can't tell the difference - especially when you consider a prewar Gibson flathead five string costs $50,000.00 and up. Again, it is in the ears of the person playing or listening.

Thanks again for the responses,
Jeff Stovall

[albertgen]

I like my Orange Gibson CG every bit as well as the Gretsch Nashville Classic. I play them both all the time. When I get tired of one I go back to the other one.

[Mike Detlefsen]

I'll throw my two cents worth in. I've owned four Gretsches over the last 50 years, and four Gibsons. I've played severaI Gibson CGs like the sound of all of them. I've also wound my own pickups to test different variables.

I'm pretty sure the reason that FilterTrons/Supertrons have the sound they do is almost entirely due to the number of windings. It's simple physics that if you put more windings on, it reduces the high-frequency response (that applies to the sound of the bass strings as well). It's the ~4.5K versus ~8K that does it. Magnets and the like have an effect, but the coil impedance is the major factor.

I can easily hear this effect on one guitar I have modified that has three coil taps... the lowest number of windings has tremendously good treble response. The middle one less so, and the highest impedance has far less. Predictably, I have to keep turning up the volume as the impedance is reduced, as it has less output. In the chase after higher output that started back in the sixties, pickups have had less of a balanced sound than they used to, IMHO.


Mike

[Norm]

~4.5K versus ~8K that does it. ..."

Paul Yandell said essentially the same thing

"...The Filter-Tron pickup is 4k ohms which is the main reason it has the sound it has. It doesn't have a great amount of output compared to a Gibson humbucker. Ray Butts designed them that way. Ray was a musician and was concerned about how things sounded. A Gibson pickup is about 8k and has a thick heavy sound with a lot of output. If you want tone the Filter-Tron has it. If you want output the Gibson has it...."

[Mike Detlefsen]

.The Filter-Tron pickup is 4k ohms which is the main reason it has the sound it has. It doesn't have a great amount of output compared to a Gibson humbucker.

And it can be carried a bit too far. Those low-impedance pickups that Les Paul used are exceptionally clean, but in my opinion aren't very well suited to thumb-picking. It's pretty difficult to get a good muted bass with them. I have two guitars with his style of pickup and they are great for flat-picking, not so much for Chet-style.

Mike

[Norm]

I saw some of those low impedance things on the LP "Recording" guitar.

Les had an interesting idea. He noticed the Phone Company used low impedance which made for a more trouble free, quieter product but The Industry had gone high impedance and paid no attention to him. Since low impedance pickups usually need transformers to make them work in a high impedance amp we'll never know what The Industry would have developed if they had started there.

[Mike Detlefsen]

Yeah, I do have to use a matching transformer with my low-impedance pickups when I use a guitar amp. They are incredibly noise-free over long distances of cable, and can be plugged directly into a mixing board, which is what Les did. I find the difference in output between a Gibson 9K pickup and my 250 ohm pickups means turning up the volume control from 3 to 4. Big deal.

Here's a pic of my guitar with the 250 ohm pickups I wound myself:


And here is the one I put one of the 50/150/300 ohm factory-made pickups that Gibson did to Les' specs (I haven't yet installed the weird electronics needed for a low-z pickup, or done the final pickup mount):


I like the sound of these a lot.

Mike

[albertgen]

The Arkansas plant put out some bad guitars. I hate to say that but I had a couple of them. Brooklyn done a better job. Although the Gretsch guitars are currently made in Japan they do a superb job and they are consistent. I think Gibson made great Chet guitars although the neck size varied on some of the CG and the Classic's. I know Les Paul and even Chet would go to the factory and pick out one, although his 59 was sent to him from Gretsch and I believe he thought it was special. Al

[Russ B]

I bought a 63 6120 in 2001, and love the "Gretsch" sound. The Gibson sounds like a Gibson, as stated, and is a beautiful guitar. What I really like, is the original Gibson CEC before they changed it. That is a great guitar. The bottom line, is all about touch. I am just glad these guitars are still around to enjoy, and this great forum.

[albertgen]

Chet's first guitars from Gibson were ES350XT's, one with Gibson humbuckers and one with low impedence pickups. He once said he made a lot of albums with low impedence which he wound himself from a coil winder he built.Al