Del Vecchio Truss Rod

[alexjones]

Hey folks,
Will be getting a DV in sometime later this week and am not sure it has a truss rod. When did they start putting these in as standard or didn't they? The DV has nylon strings on it now. It was the DV that was on ebay just recently with the blonde top and brazillian rosewood back and sides (anyone know any history on this guitar?). I know Chet had someone install truss rods on the DV's he played on. Is anyone playing the silk and steel strings without a truss rod? I know it's a big no no to put steel strings on a classical guitar because of the added tension. I am thinking I will have to have someone install a truss rod. What do you guys think? As always, thanks for your input!
Alex

[thenorm]

Didn't see the model you describe. If you provide the Ebay code number it may still be viewable

The store I worked at in the seventies bought three DV's, the rosewood models. All 3 came with silk and steel strings.
They had No truss rods.

If your DV is made for nylon strings it should have a classical bridge on it. Those are the kind that the strings tie onto and the bridge is part of the stringmount.
I'm betting it has a metal trapeze style bridge indicating it was intended for silk and steel. After all, the resonator is not made to tie on strings.

I would be concerned that the previous owner saw a neck warp coming (which happens to some DV's) and put on nylon strings to ease the tension.

[alexjones]

Thanks Norm for your information. The ebay code is 150624828962. Should be able to still view it. It does indeed have the metal trapeze bridge. I always read that the Del Vec's were really a hit or miss situation. But it seems that after 40 years of being strung up if they were going to warp, they most likely would have by now. The seller assures me that the neck is very straight.

If it had a truss rod, where would the access be (in the body at the heel of neck or on headstock)? I think what I will do is string it up with silk and steels and measure any deflection. If it very measurable I will have a truss rod put into it - that is if it is tonally satisfying. Have you seen/played any of these blonde Del Vec's? Thanks again!
Alex

[thenorm]

Well, that's a first for me (blonde top)

http://cgi.ebay.com/150624828962?ru=htt ... 3D1&_rdc=1

No, I've never seen or played one but it looks to me like your basic DV of that era only with a blonde top. Shouldn't sound a whole lot different than the other DV's of the day since the top would have little influence on the overall tone IMO since it is a resonator guitar,

The instrument is not designed to use nylon strings. Resonator guitars are made that way to extract more volume out of the instrument and nylon strings don't cut it. Don't use anything rowdier than silk and steel though because DV's are delicate as far as resonator guitars go. I would have been put off because of his use of nylons but can't much be done about it now. You might make a note that DV type resonators are available at Beard Guitars.

Having a truss rod installed essentially means having a neck rebiuld. The adjustment mechanism would be placed wherever you and the restoration person decide on. I'd have him look into the feasiblily or necessity of having a more accurate fingerboard and bridge put on it too. That's what Chet had done to his and even at that he said it was a better linear guitar than a chording guitar.

Choose your repair shop carefully. It's going to cost you some money to get it done right and finding someone to do it right is important but you should end up with a sweet sounding guitar.

Good luck...

[Tom Keller]

Hi, If it were my guitar the only thing I would do to it would be to have a compensated bridge saddle installed, that is if the cone is in good shape and the fretboard is anywhere near accurate etc.... I would then while away the hours trying to the achieve the tone that Chet and Nato Lima got out of there Del Vecchio's.

[thenorm]

That's all well and good but still these things have to be taken guitar to guitar basis.
The three units we bought at the store I worked at very quickly developed backbowed necks and as I already pointed out iI'm curious why anyone would use nylon strings on a resonator guitar.
A compensated bridge on this kind of guitar would be a tricky thing...something I'd not attempt on my own.

DV's have that distinctive tone. You may not sound like Chet or Nato but you Will sound like you're playing a DV.

Time will tell on this one


...that's how it looks to me.

[guitarchuck]

Didn't Chet use a combination of silk & steel and nylon strings on his Del Vecchio? Seems like I read a post from Craig Dobbins stating that fact a while back.

[guitarchuck]

Here's the excerpt from the post that I was thinking about:

I use the ProArte on the Sand (extra hard, or sometimes hard tension), nickel wound on my electrics, and phosphor bronze on my acoustic. I have the remainders of some sets they made up for Chet for my Delvecchio. (Plain 1st-3rd, silk and steel 4th, and nylon 5th and 6th).

Maybe Craig can give us some more details.

[guitarchuck]

I emailed Craig Dobbins about this:

"Hi Craig, There's some discussion about the use of nylon strings for a Del Vecchio on the Chetboard. I had remembered your post:

" I use the ProArte on the Sand (extra hard, or sometimes hard tension), nickel wound on my electrics, and phosphor bronze on my acoustic. I have the remainders of some sets they made up for Chet for my Delvecchio. (Plain 1st-3rd, silk and steel 4th, and nylon 5th and 6th). "

So, were these sets (Plain 1st-3rd, silk and steel 4th, and nylon 5th and 6th) made for Chet by D'Addario?

Yes, they were put together for Chet by D'Addario sometime in the early/mid 90's, for s DV and McGill resonators.

Do you know what gauges each of these strings were? Any details on these strings would be appreciated.

I don't have a caliper to measure, but the plain steel strings are something like .011, .013 or .014, and .017. The 4th is a standard gauge ball end silk and steel 4th string. The 5th and 6th are ball end silver wrapped nylon strings, like in a "folk guitar" set. They feel pretty hefty, so I'd say they were probably the D'Addario ProArte extra hard, but with ball ends. The nylon basses give a deep, powerful tone to the low notes, and the silk and steel 4th gives a nice transition to the plain 3rd.

On my long scale DV, I detune the 5th and 6th by about a whole tone when I'm not using the guitar, because those strings are the first ones to break.

You can post my answer if you wish.
Thanks,

Craig

[craigdobbins]

Alex-

My DV is a 1960's model, long (25 1/2") scale. It has been refretted and has a compensated plexiglass saddle (just the saddle, not the disc or "biscuit" bridge). Before I used the composite sets described above, I used light gauge D'Addario silk and steel. My DV doesn't have a truss rod, and the neck has never had any problems, with either warping or neck angle.

I do let the 5th and 6th strings down as I mentioned above, but that's to preserve the strings, not the guitar. When I used regular silk and steel strings, I usually left the strings at full tension, especially when using it regularly, and I've never had any problems. I do keep it in a high quality hardshell case, rather than sitting out.

On a DV, the truss rod access needs to be at the nut. (That's where it is on Chet's guitars.) For soundwell access, you would need to loosen the strings, remove the soundwell cover (a tedious job, and it's even harder to put back on), remove the cone, and reach inside the guitar.

One of the luthiers at Kirk Sand's store (The Guitar Shoppe, Laguna Beach, CA) installed a truss rod (and I believe new fretboard and frets) and compensated saddle on a friend's DV, and did an excellent job.

It's also very important to make sure that the cone is in good condition and properly seated. A fraction of an inch can make a big difference in the sound, not so much the volume as the tone.

Craig