Calling It Quits (Kinda)

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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby Mike Nye » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:27 am

Things are NOT moving BACKWARDS, they're moving AHEAD at LIGHTNING SPEED ! ! !

Remember 40-years ago when you bought TV and/or audio equipment, you had THE LATEST & GREATEST for about 6 months to a year; now it's 6-WEEKS if you're lucky . . .

Technology turns over for FAST these days that auto manufacturers DON'T even print service manuals anymore, as by the time the ink's dry the information is obsolete. Everything is obtained from an Intranet database, where technicians search info and print the pages they need. This is actually a good thing, especially if you've ever tried to read a manual that's had something spilled all over it or full of fingerprints with pages torn or missing . . .

How many of you with HDTVs have ever used ALL the INTERACTIVE features they offer? Many PBS stations are now interactive so you may actually download a recipe from a cooking show, a list of where you can buy the ingredients and even order them from grocery markets that now deliver in some areas . . .

The best way to put it is: "Ya ain't seen nothin yet!!!"
If BRUTE-FORCE isn't working, you're just not applying enough of it ! ! !
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby Randy Finney » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:38 am

It has been interesting to watch this thread evolve - you are such a good conversation starter, Norm.

For sure, CDs are on the way out but, not just because of digital downloading. Compressed music formats only have one advantage - they make music portable. The sound quality is less than mediocre.

Digital downloading is akin to fast food - it is convenient, instantly gratifying, and requires little or no commitment to any kind of time consuming ritual or process. We all eat fast food, but, if we eat it too often we become obese, unhealthy, stressed out, and lose the ability to actually taste anything other than salt. We all listen to digital music but, if we listen to it too much our ear muscles become weak and unhealthy.

The fine dining experience is not convenient, is not instantly gratifying, and does require a commitment to a time consuming ritual or process. If we fine dine more often (you can fine dine at home) we become healthier, less stressed, and develop more refined tastes. If we listen to quality recordings our ears muscles become stronger and healthier.

Fast food didn't kill fine dining and digital downloading won't kill quality recordings. For quality, vinyl is the way to go - vinyl has always been the choice of audiophile listening.

What is killing CDs is that they cannot compete on either level.

And it seems that more people are discovering, or re-discovering, the concept of quality. Vinyl sales increased a whopping 41.2% last year. Granted, this only represents a few million records but, it is certainly refreshing to know that more people are getting the idea that the music listening experience is about a lot more than hearing a sequence of notes while driving, walking, exercising, or being distracted in some other way.

Randy
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby Randy Finney » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:51 am

Randy Finney wrote:you are such a good conversation starter, Norm.

Whoops, you are such a good conversation starter BRUCE. Apparently my finger/mind connection is as clumsy on the keyboard as it is on the fretboard.

Blessing in disguise, though. It allows me to make the point that your videos serve the same kind of purpose - they are inspirational, musical conversation starters. This does not hurt the the music industry - quite the contrary.

I guarantee your videos have inspired countless players to learn more about music and to spend money in the music industry.

Randy
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby keener » Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:17 pm

Randy,

I appreciate your very kind words about my videos. I do Hope at least a few have been inspired by my picking to want to learn more about the guitar and have bought some of the many tutorials that are available.

You are certainly right about the quality of analog over digital ... thank goodness I learned to play Chet's style by listening to his LPs (over and over and over and over). (Of course digital media was not even an option back then.)

I am glad that sells have LPs have gone up so much ... I'm delighted that there are still those who want the quality of sound that you can get with an analog recording. My own personal preference for digital is based on the facts that (1) my hearing ability has declined to the point that analog vs digital doesn't matter like it did, (2) I can listen to digital in my car, and (3) the convenience of digital appeals to me, and (4) I doubt that my turntable even works anymore.

But, good points. Of course, digital will win out completely "in the end." I suspect we'll soon see formats that conserve a lot of the quality of the analog recordings, Compression was desired for a long time with the digital formats because of worries about disk space and bandwidth. Neither of those are really of concern anymore, so we should be able to see digital formats that have about the same quality as analog formats.

Thanks again, Randy. BTW, Norm does start good conversations, so I can sure understand the typo.
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby Mike Nye » Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:56 pm

I've read these recent posts about how analog vinyl sounds compared to digital program source.

The FIRST thing you have to consider is WHAT equipment are you using to do an A/B comparison. Analog turntables range in price from $30.00 to $30,000.00, and about the same for CD players, so there are a lot of variables when comparing the two medias.

I have really good audio playback equipment, both analog & digital. I just changed cell providers, so I got a new $30.00 phone with a camera & MP3 player. I also have a stereo Bluetooth headset so I can listen to music while riding my bike.

I also have a really good turntable, arm & cartridge and I keep my vinyl in pristine condition so everything always sounds good. But, have you ever tried riding a bike with a turntable on the handlebars; it doesn't work too well.

Digital media allows you to load HUNDREDS to THOUSANDS of songs (depending on bit rate) on a 4Gb SD micro memory card the size of your fingernail that would be equal to HUNDREDS of pounds of vinyl records.

I have to say that my El Cheapo cell phone with a good stereo Bluetooth headset sounds VERY GOOD considering that I'm able to listen to my favorite music on an investment of about $100.00 while riding my bike.

I recently ripped my entire CD & vinyl collection to 320Kbs MP3 format, so all I have to do is call up what I want to listen to on my computer and port it to my audio system, instead of having to get up, get a CD and put it in the player. And I can also load music files onto memory card for my cell phone in seconds.

The reason that a lot of people prefer analog vinyl compared to digital format is the COMPRESSION required to master an analog disc, as the ENTIRE dynamic range of digital source material is more IN YOUR FACE ! ! !

If you were to master an un-compressed analog vinyl disc, with no RIAA roll off curve, it'd blow the stylus right out of the record groove when tracking source material such the canon fire of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture ! ! !

I have a parametric EQ and a DBX compressor where I can compress my digital source material to an analog dynamic range for EZ listening background music, and it sounds exactly like a vinyl LP.

Digital is a really good format to figure guitar licks, as you can slow it down & loop it over & over again till you get it down. You can really ruin a vinyl LP really quick doing this ! ! !
If BRUTE-FORCE isn't working, you're just not applying enough of it ! ! !
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby RandeDager » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:56 pm

Mike, what you described at the end is how I grew up. I listened to my 33&1/3 Chet albums at 16&2/3 and learned the best that I could one octave lower AND wore out a few needles and record grooves!
Rande
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby keener » Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:35 pm

Rande,
Just think ... If you had worn the right color socks, you might not have had to wear out so many records. Muhahaha!
Bruce
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby Randy Finney » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:03 pm

Good points. Mike Nye. There is no question that digital media in infinitely more convenient and it is certainly a large part of my life also.

As for...

Mike Nye wrote:Digital media allows you to load HUNDREDS to THOUSANDS of songs (depending on bit rate) on a 4Gb SD micro memory card the size of your fingernail that would be equal to HUNDREDS of pounds of vinyl records.


...I am not sure why I would want to do this. Even if I listened to music 16 hours each day, it would still take me over one year to listen to this much music - and I would only get to hear each song once. Plus, if I was away from home this long I am pretty sure I wouldn't be allowed back.

As for...

Mike Nye wrote:The reason that a lot of people prefer analog vinyl compared to digital format is the COMPRESSION required to master an analog disc, as the ENTIRE dynamic range of digital source material is more IN YOUR FACE ! ! !


...I completely agree - it is the harshness of digital source material that is ANNOYING!!!!. 8-)

Randy
P.S. If you haven't bought the remastered Pink Floyd Collection, get it. David Gilmour's guitar has never sounded better - even on vinyl!
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby Mike Nye » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:18 pm

Randy Finney wrote:Good points. Mike Nye. There is no question that digital media in infinitely more convenient and it is certainly a large part of my life also.

As for...

Mike Nye wrote:Digital media allows you to load HUNDREDS to THOUSANDS of songs (depending on bit rate) on a 4Gb SD micro memory card the size of your fingernail that would be equal to HUNDREDS of pounds of vinyl records.


...I am not sure why I would want to do this. Even if I listened to music 16 hours each day, it would still take me over one year to listen to this much music - and I would only get to hear each song once. Plus, if I was away from home this long I am pretty sure I wouldn't be allowed back.

Then get a 512 Mb memory module -Holds about 100 LPs


As for...

Mike Nye wrote:The reason that a lot of people prefer analog vinyl compared to digital format is the COMPRESSION required to master an analog disc, as the ENTIRE dynamic range of digital source material is more IN YOUR FACE ! ! !


...I completely agree - it is the harshness of digital source material that is ANNOYING!!!!. 8-)

Digital audio is so accurate compared to analog audio that MOST call it harsh as you did, but the reality is that it's too much audible information for some to process compared to what they're used to listening for years prior to digital re-mastering analog source material.


Randy
P.S. If you haven't bought the remastered Pink Floyd Collection, get it. David Gilmour's guitar has never sounded better - even on vinyl!


Yes . . . I have The Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs 1/2 speed masters on vinyl, and the gold series CD
If BRUTE-FORCE isn't working, you're just not applying enough of it ! ! !
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Re: Calling It Quits (Kinda)

Postby RandeDager » Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:00 pm

I'm getting a kick out of the possibility that we may be soon moving on to Page #5 of a thread entitled "Calling it Quits".
Rande
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